Friday, 7 August 2009

Philippe Karl's Petition


Took Anky up to the school today, usual lungeing, five minutes each rein, she is looser and more relaxed, starting to stretch over her back and neck.
Worked with Remy for a very short session, practiced the giravolta on both reins. He was very calm and responsive. A short, sweet session. (thanks for the info, Trudi)

Just been on Philippe Karl's website reading the correspondence between him and Christoph Hess of the German Equestrian Federation.
Philippe Karl is certainly passionate, but, unfortunately, I think he's banging his head against a brick wall.

It would do no harm at all for all riders to watch the vid below to see what good training can achieve and how beautiful a horse and rider can be.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Philippe Karl is doing the horse world a great service with his efforts. Sometimes it takes a long time to make important changes, but dedicated people like him who just keep working to change minds can make an enormous difference.

Di said...

Absolutely agree with you, and I really hope he can make a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

trudi said...

Which vid Di? Luuurve his response to Hess, the guy is so eloquent. Low hands and banging into the contact...think he's trying to have a poke hehe. Love the pic of you and Rem in the school.

Di said...

Trudi, the vid below of the working equitation.

Di said...

sorry should have said previous post.

Claire said...

yes, it made interesting reading....we can all live in hope!

HorseOfCourse said...

You know guys, I am a bit ambivalent in all this.
While I believe the cause is a worthy one, I am skeptical towards someone that paints out the world in black and white, and preaches that his is only one way to salvation.
I have read “Twisted truths about modern dressage”, and it left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. What I cannot free myself from is the impression that Philippe Karl in his book is doing his best to discredit “modern dressage” to get a better background to his own work.
I do not recognize the picture he paints up.
Maybe it is necessary to speak with loud words to get enough opinion raised so something can be done to take action against rollkur/hyperflexion; and if so the cause is worthy and the means are justified – but to be frank I believe that being arrogant (which I believe he was in his reply) will not be the easiest way to change things. You thereby run a considerable risk of turning people against the cause instead of making them listen.

Now give me Gerd Heuschmann and Klaus Balkenhol instead. Here you have a calm, informed and scientific approach which I believe has a higher potential in making things happen.

Di said...

But HofC, someone has to speak up. If not, how are we going to change things? Top international riders are held up as being the best in their sport. Their brutal training methods are condoned and rewarded. I know that there are very good trainers and riders in the competition world and people have their own ways of trying to make a difference. Gerd Heuschmann has written a book, and very good it is too. I'm sure he did it for all the right reasons, but, surely, he will benefit from it?
PK's first letter to CH was very rudely dismissed out of hand, his second letter, in my opinion, just tells it like it is! Certain aspects of 'Modern Dressage' need discrediting, the sooner the better.

I'm surprised that you don't recognise the picture he is painting, unfortunately, it's there for all to see.

trudi said...

I believe that after spending time with Karl that Heuschmann is now rather taken with his training methods.
There is a certain ammount of mud being slung at PK over on the CD list right now but when I look at the equitation skills of those with the most mud in their fists I find it hard to take them seriously.
Each to his own as long as horses aren't being hurt or stressed in man's quest for gold medals. Ego abounds at the top of the sport and art worlds which means that dressage has it's fair share, lol, PK needs to hit hard if anyone is to notice him and to be fair he actually just wants a return to the old rules as created by Decarpentry.

HorseOfCourse said...

Guys, I don't believe we disagree in cause, just so that is clear.
But there are a lot of people that has spoken up, not only Philippe Karl.
Klaus Balkenhol and Gerd Heuschmann had a tour all around Europe (and I also believe they went to the US) to point out the effects of rollkur and more in 2005, I attended two of those seminars.
I believe that, together with the articles in St Georg was the reason for FEI making the statement back in 2006 (http://tiny.cc/RLk9v)
I would say that a clear majority of dressage riders stands fast on the classical principles of education, and sees rollkur as something that should be banished.
(I wrote a post touching this subject back in feb, if you are interested, http://tiny.cc/HaqKj)
A debate with a constructive dialogue, and where scientific/veterinarian arguments that can not so easily be overlooked perhaps is the easiest way to make a change, IMHO.
I will attend a two days seminar with Christoph Hess end of this month. Will be interesting to hear if he touches the subject.

But maybe we have to agree that we disagree about PK ;)

And Trudi, what is the CD list?

trudi said...

Thanks HofC I'll go read your posts. I'd agree on many points too, except maybe PK ;-)
But nothing has changed since 2006, the winners are still rollkuring!!! It's all posturing surely?

CD is classical dressage list, Thomas Ritter's list.

HorseOfCourse said...

I believe many (with me) were disappointed that FEI in 2006 did not condemn the rollkur in more severe words than they did.
But I believe the reason at that time was that there was not enough scientific evidence to back it up, even if they wanted to.
Which is very frustrating, not only to us and everyone else around the world that would like this to happen; but what about those ones that compete against the rollkur-users, and tries to do a good job? And are bunched together with the “bad guys” in the bashing against “Modern dressage”, where MD suddenly equals bad riding, or bad handling of the horses? I believe it is both very frustrating, and also very unfair.
I am just looking for a bit more nuances in the debate.

Trudi, does this equal the yahoo discussion group with the same name?

trudi said...

Yes HofC it's ritters yahoo group

I'm really not compo bashing. Six years ago in the UK I was a competitor, trainer and trainee British Dressage judge. I've seen my share of awful riding, awful training and some bad judging too and at all levels. I judged and wrote many, many times and this is first hand info, not what I heard from someone else. I'm happy that the standards in Norway are better, hope it's contagious, but the likes of Balkenhol are very few and far between. I do admire Kyra K and at times I've liked Carl Hester (although watching him constantly allowing a young Iberian horse to over bend and lean on the bit I'm not so sure now) but I'll happily be directed to videos of good work, compo or otherwise if the riding/training is good then I'm happy to enjoy it.

HorseOfCourse said...

So let's just unite in a wish that there will be a change (and that there is a vivid discussion going on also in the other equestrian disciplines, where I belive the siutation is as bad, or even worse).

Money is the root to all evil.
At least much of it.

trudi said...

For sure, power too :-(